Hi everyone, I’ve heard JP say pain is the most real thing in the universe or something along those lines. I don’t think he ever went super in depth about that. Does anyone know what branch of philosophy this comes from and where I can read more about this?
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Susan Ki-Wen IMO, I wouldn’t say it’s from a particular branch of philosophy, but rather—a network of ideas Peterson has put together from various thinkers throughout history. From the literature of Dostoyevsky, to Viktor Frankl’s logotherapy (Man’s Search for Meaning), to William James’ idea of the healthy vs. sick soul, to the philosophy of Nietzsche. The idea that “pain is the most real thing in the universe” is the idea that suffering—the act of suffering—is an inherent part of the human condition and the whole of human existence. To suffer is to find meaning—to derive value from the situations which (we believe) cause us to suffer. To suffer is to be exposed—to be vulnerable—exposing ourselves to the sensitivities of life. To suffer is to open up the possibility and opportunity to pursue meaning in our living.
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A few quotes by Viktor Frankl in ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’:
“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”
“Dostoevski said once, ‘There is only one thing I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.’ These words frequently came to my mind after I became acquainted with those martyrs whose behavior in camp, whose suffering and death, bore witness to the fact that the last inner freedom cannot be lost. It can be said that they were worthy of the their sufferings; the way they bore their suffering was a genuine inner achievement. It is this spiritual freedom—which cannot be taken away—that makes life meaningful and purposeful.”
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And a few quotes by William James on the sick soul:
“The most complete religions would therefore seem to be those in which the pessimistic elements are best developed. Buddhism, of course, and Christianity are the best known to us. They are essentially the religions of deliverance; the man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life’.”
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And Nietzsche on pain/suffering:
“The discipline of suffering, of great suffering – do you not know that it is this discipline alone that has produced all the elevations of humanity so far?”
“Who can attain to anything great if he does not feel in himself the force and will to inflict great pain?”
“One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.”
Steven Draper Great quotes Susan. I think to some degree, our suffering has a way to make us humble, by stripping away or muting out the garbage that we believe to be valuable. The truth of actuality overriding the constructs of a poorly understood reality. A realig…See More
Steven Draper One of my favorite quotes: “I maintain that all there is – is that which the observer brings forth in his or her distinctions. We do not distinguish what is, but what we distinguish is.”
~Humberto R. Maturana
Susan Ki-Wen Your last sentence is spot on (I share the view). Suffering has a function. It allows for meditation and reflection—to process, feel, and digest your reality so it can become clear. Only when we can see clearly, can we utilize our reality with our curi…See More
Steven Draper Susan Ki-Wen Well said. I like to think of it as traveling on, without forgetting who I am. Pains fade with time, but the lessons they help teach can be used much like facts. Not a science by any means, but a wisdom. A custom form of knowing tailored t…See More
Susan Ki-Wen Steven Draper It’s distancing yourself from who you are to what you are. Who you are is rooted in what you are. You will never lose that which connects you. We fall into the tragedies and miseries of life—the misfortunes—and in turn, in suffering, we extract fragments of intuitions and translate them into wisdom.
Adé Egun Crispin Robinson I think he means this as a counter to the idea that “truth is subjective” to which he says “If I make you feel extraordinary pain you will absolutely define it as real and no amount of clever rhetorical wordplay will save you.” Therefore the highest moral truth is to reduce suffering, because suffering is absolutely real.