Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

 

 

Eline Arisse shared a link.

I’ve read ‘Man’s search for meaning’ by Viktor E. Frankl, and I’m totally amazed by the clarity of his theories and the explanation of them. I’ve made some notes of the most important quotes (for me) and will add some thoughts about it as well.
Frankl was so aware of what happened to him and others on a physical, emotional and collective level in the concentration camp. It’s really extraordinary. He managed to comfort people spiritually on occassion while he was really weak himself.

Also here a link to Peterson’s lecture about Frankl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zooE5GE81TU

p.85: Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfil the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual. These tasks, and therefore the meaning of life differ from man to man, and from moment to moment. Thus it is impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way.
(…)
No man and no destiny can be compared to with any other man or any other destiny. No situation repeats itself, and each situation calls for a different response. Sometimes the situation in which a man finds himself may require him to shape his own fate by action. At other times it is more advantageous for him to make use of an opportunity for contemplation and to realize assets in this way. Sometimes man may be requested simply to accept fate, to bear it cross.

p.86: But there was no need to be ashamed of tears, for tears bore witness that man had the greatest of courage, the courage to suffer.

p.87: This uniqueness and singleness which distinguishes each individual and give meaning to his existence has a bearing on creative work as much as it does on human love. When the impossibility of replacing a person is realized, it allows the responsibility which a man has for his existence and its continuance to appear in all its magnitude. A man who becomes conscious of the responsibility he bears toward a human being who affectionately waits for him, or to an unfinished, will never be able to throw away his life. He knows the ‘why’ for his existence, and will be able to bear almost any ‘how’.

p.144: I explain to somehow who’s prone to suicide that patients have repeatedly told me how happy they were that the suicide attempt had not been succesful; weeks, months, years later, they told me, it turned out there was a solution to their problem, an answer to their question, a meaning to their life. Even if things only take such a good turn in one of a thousand cases, my explanation continues, who can guarantee that in your case it will not happen one day, sooner or later? But in the first place, you have to live to see that day dawn, and from now on the responsibility for survival does not leave you.

p.146: As logotherapy teaches, there are three main avenues on which one arrives at meaning in life. The first is by creating a work of doing a deed. The second is by experiencing something or encountering someone; in other words, meaning can be found not only in work but also in love. Edith Weisskopf-Joelson observed in this context that the logotherapeutic notion that experiencing can be as valuable as achieving is therapeutic because it compensates for our one-sided emphasis on the external world of achievement at the expense of the internal world of experience. Thirdly even the helpless victim of a hopeless situation, facing a fate he cannot change, may rise above himself. He may turn a personal tragedy in a triumph. But being proud of your suffering is given very little opportunity if you are expected to not be unhappy and if you are to be ashamed of it (most relevant in the USA this last point).

Also his concepts of the existential vaccuum, the super-meaning, meaning of life, meaning of love, and meaning of suffering are really worthwhile. I didn’t like all of his examples of logodrama, which offer sometimes real easy solutions for very complex pain or mourning people go through, which were given a certain meaning by Frankl which he put on their situation, to give them an answer for their suffering, the why of their experiences. I really like his theories, but this felt too easy, because it should be in accordance with the inner decision to see this meaning by people themselves… And they understood what he was saying, and agreed, but people are mostly very vulnerable and need an answer badly. It can be dangerous to give this answer instead of letting people formulate it themselves…

From the lecture: Existentialists, like Frankl, are drawn to authenticity and truth.
The individuals who created mass murders in the Sovjet Union and Nazi Germany were psychopathological individuals.
The whole state is pathological because of incongruent individuals. Especially willful blindness.
The psychopathological traits people develop stem from psychopathological conditions of existence itself.
Cleaning your phenomenological space is the first step because it’s something you can do in your reach, and to be able to find solutions for bigger and bigger problems.
2nd: Evil is unnecessary tragedy.
See you stop to do things you bully yourself with. Don’t undermine yourself building your competences for example.
– You can’t run from immorality.

Listen the rest for yourselves. Really interesting

2014 Personality Lecture 11: Existentialism: Viktor Frankl

 

 

Cody Bradley Indeed, thanks for sharing these thoughts!

“Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual. These tasks, and therefore the meaning of life differ from man to man, and from moment to moment. Thus it is impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way.”

Great content, but this seems to be worded in a self-contradictory manner. Frankl says it’s “impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way,” but two sentences prior he presents the general definition that “life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.” Regardless, he says that because each person is ultimately unique and in unique circumstances, the meaning of one’s life is going to be unique, given his general definition. That seems rather agreeable, and I’m thankful that you shared that.

However, this is only to address the meaning of life from a personal side. The meaning of life as a metaphysical concern is still left untouched, which I’d argue, from an objectivist perspective (life has objective, metaphysical meaning), is infinitely more important. Unless existence itself is value-laden and has objective meaning, personal meaning is nothing more than the engagement in a sort of narcissistic delusion. Now, I haven’t read Frankl’s book, and I’ve yet to watch the Peterson lecture. Does Frankl engage with the meaning of life from a metaphysical perspective at all?

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July 19 at 2:22pm

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Eline Arisse To answer your question first: yes, he does. This is called super-meaning. I’ll quote it for you from the book what he wrote about it in a message below this one.
Thanks for sharing your sharp thoughts. You read closely, so contradictions become clear. Nice!
I can’t describe all of Frankl’s thoughts, because it’s written in such a compact way you could share whole pages of the book and talk about it for a while 
I agree with the self-contradictory way it’s described. I’ll see if I can find something about it.

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Eline Arisse The Super-meaning
This ultimate meaning necessarily exceeds and surpasses the finite intellectual capacities of man; in logotherapy, we speak in this context of a super-meaning. What is demanded of man, is not as some existential philosophers teach, to endure the meaninglessness of life, but rather to bear this incapacity to grasp its unconditional meaningfulness in rational terms. Logos is deeper than logic.
(page 122)

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Eline Arisse A beginning to answer the question about the self-contradictory writing is found on page 133 I think. It’s about his stand towards pan-determinism, which he objects to because he says we all are self determing beings. ‘Man is not fully conditioned and determined but rather determines himself whether he gives in to conditions or stands up to them. Man does not simply exist but always decides what his existence will be, what he will become in the next moment.’
But we can change any moment through our freedom (of choice). Therefore we can predict the future by conducting statistical research concerning a whole group, within a larger framework. ‘The individual personality, however, stays unpredictable. (…) The basis for any predictions would be represented by biological, psychological or sociological conditions. Yet, one of the main features of human existence is the capacity to rise above such conditions, to grow beyond them. Man is capable of changing the world for the better if possible, and of changing himself for the better, if necessary.’

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Eline Arisse So, the question still remains what Frankl means by what tasks life appoints to you. I guess it becomes your responsibility if you choose (determine) a task out of one of the conditions (biological, psychological or sociological) and decide to take this into your personal framework of life, which is unpredictable. To choose it and live it means to grow beyond the conditions is my assumption.

JP’s source for pain is the most real thing in the universe

Daniel Kim

Hi everyone, I’ve heard JP say pain is the most real thing in the universe or something along those lines. I don’t think he ever went super in depth about that. Does anyone know what branch of philosophy this comes from and where I can read more about this?

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/198567587146349/permalink/474980976171674/

 

 

Susan Ki-Wen IMO, I wouldn’t say it’s from a particular branch of philosophy, but rather—a network of ideas Peterson has put together from various thinkers throughout history. From the literature of Dostoyevsky, to Viktor Frankl’s logotherapy (Man’s Search for Meaning), to William James’ idea of the healthy vs. sick soul, to the philosophy of Nietzsche. The idea that “pain is the most real thing in the universe” is the idea that suffering—the act of suffering—is an inherent part of the human condition and the whole of human existence. To suffer is to find meaning—to derive value from the situations which (we believe) cause us to suffer. To suffer is to be exposed—to be vulnerable—exposing ourselves to the sensitivities of life. To suffer is to open up the possibility and opportunity to pursue meaning in our living.

A few quotes by Viktor Frankl in ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’:
“Everything can be taken from a man but one thing; the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way.”

“Dostoevski said once, ‘There is only one thing I dread: not to be worthy of my sufferings.’ These words frequently came to my mind after I became acquainted with those martyrs whose behavior in camp, whose suffering and death, bore witness to the fact that the last inner freedom cannot be lost. It can be said that they were worthy of the their sufferings; the way they bore their suffering was a genuine inner achievement. It is this spiritual freedom—which cannot be taken away—that makes life meaningful and purposeful.”

And a few quotes by William James on the sick soul:
“The most complete religions would therefore seem to be those in which the pessimistic elements are best developed. Buddhism, of course, and Christianity are the best known to us. They are essentially the religions of deliverance; the man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life’.”

And Nietzsche on pain/suffering:
“The discipline of suffering, of great suffering – do you not know that it is this discipline alone that has produced all the elevations of humanity so far?”

“Who can attain to anything great if he does not feel in himself the force and will to inflict great pain?”

“One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.”

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May 18 at 8:33pm

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May 18 at 8:33pm

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Steven Draper Great quotes Susan. I think to some degree, our suffering has a way to make us humble, by stripping away or muting out the garbage that we believe to be valuable. The truth of actuality overriding the constructs of a poorly understood reality. A realigSee More

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May 18 at 10:18pm

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Steven Draper One of my favorite quotes: “I maintain that all there is – is that which the observer brings forth in his or her distinctions. We do not distinguish what is, but what we distinguish is.”

~Humberto R. Maturana

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May 18 at 10:25pm

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Susan Ki-Wen Your last sentence is spot on (I share the view). Suffering has a function. It allows for meditation and reflection—to process, feel, and digest your reality so it can become clear. Only when we can see clearly, can we utilize our reality with our curiSee More

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May 18 at 10:53pmEdited

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Steven Draper Susan Ki-Wen Well said. I like to think of it as traveling on, without forgetting who I am. Pains fade with time, but the lessons they help teach can be used much like facts. Not a science by any means, but a wisdom. A custom form of knowing tailored tSee More

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May 19 at 12:10am

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Susan Ki-Wen Steven Draper It’s distancing yourself from who you are to what you are. Who you are is rooted in what you are. You will never lose that which connects you. We fall into the tragedies and miseries of life—the misfortunes—and in turn, in suffering, we extract fragments of intuitions and translate them into wisdom.

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May 19 at 12:20am

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Adé Egun Crispin Robinson I think he means this as a counter to the idea that “truth is subjective” to which he says “If I make you feel extraordinary pain you will absolutely define it as real and no amount of clever rhetorical wordplay will save you.” Therefore the highest moral truth is to reduce suffering, because suffering is absolutely real.

 

New York Times – Beijing Hinders Free Speech in America

The conduct and thinking of these Chinese and Vietnamese communist students (many of them children of Communist Party members) is EXACTLY the same as that of regressive leftist SJWs like communist ANTIFA and intersectionalists, EXACTLY reminiscent to Red Guards (Hồng Vệ Binh) of their grandparents generation.
Why are we educating and training the next generation of leaders for a totalitarian belligerent hostile dictatorship is beyond me. Would Western universities accept hordes of foreign students who are children of fascist regime members??

“The Chinese government, or people sympathetic to it, encourage like-minded Chinese students and scholars in the West to report on Chinese students who participate in politically sensitive activities — like my salons, but also other public forums and protests against Beijing. Members of the China Students and Scholars Association, which has chapters at many American universities, maintain ties with the Chinese consulates and keep tabs on “unpatriotic” people and activities on campuses. Agents or sympathizers of the Chinese government show up at public events videotaping and snapping pictures of speakers, participants and organizers.

Chinese students who are seen with political dissidents like me or dare to publicly challenge Chinese government policies can be put on a blacklist. Their families in China can be threatened or punished.

When these students return to China, members of the public security bureau may “invite” them to “tea,” where they are interrogated and sometimes threatened. Their passport may not be renewed. One student told me that during one of his home visits to China he was pressured to spy on others in the United States.

And in one egregious example of intimidation, in March 2016, the police in China abducted the relatives of the Chinese journalist Chang Ping, who lives in exile in Germany, after he published an article in a German publication that was critical of President Xi Jinping’s crackdown on free speech.
[…]
Not all Chinese students in the West condemn their government. Many, in fact, actively support Beijing, often by shaming their fellow students who criticize Beijing.

Nationalism is rampant in China and many students, who grew up subjected to the full force of the Chinese government’s “patriotic education program,” carry it abroad. They blame Western powers for causing a “century of humiliation” before the Communist takeover in 1949 and for instigating trouble and constraining China’s growth as a global power. These “patriotic” students and scholars team up with the Chinese consulates to sabotage protests critical of the Chinese government. Many resort to online harassment of Beijing’s critics.

In a typical example, Shuping Yang, a Chinese student at the University of Maryland in May praised the “fresh air of free speech” in the United States during her commencement address and then faced a barrage of threats online from Chinese citizens and the state media for “insulting the motherland.” The China Students and Scholars Association encouraged people to rebut Ms. Yang’s views. Under the pressure, Ms. Yang issued a public apology, asking for forgiveness and declaring that she did not intend to belittle her country.”

https://www.nytimes.com/…/opinion/beijing-free-speech-ameri…

Jubilee year

Hurry up Jordan Peterson. We need to to talk about the Jubilee year. We’ve heard enough about the Pareto distribution as a justification of Western civilization in its current deformed, earth destroying shape. When and how often should Western civilization introduce a Jubilee, a cancellation of debt, and a redistribution of wealth, a leveling of the economic playing field, viz, equity or opportunity?

 

Soviet Union Q&A

Mirosław Koziarski shared Slavorum‘s post.

Okay, I am using this meme as a pretext. Being rather young as I am, I was born just months before the fall of the Soviet Union, so I mostly know the aftermath from experience and stories from my entire family. JBP made me aware of how much ignorance and misconceptios there are in the first world.

So… how about we make a thread where you guys try asking questions about the Soviet Union, while those of us who had any contact with it try answering those?

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